How to reduce testosterone water retention

500mg Testo only vs 750mg Testo + aromatase inhibitor

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bichtit
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500mg Testo only vs 750mg Testo + aromatase inhibitor

of bichtit »21 Jun 2006 12:02 pm

I've been reading along here for a while. I noticed that one often stumbles upon the question of what would be better now, e.g.
500mg Testo only
or
750mg Testo + A inhibitor
this topic is always very controversial, but i would like to draw up a list of advantages and disadvantages so that everyone can get a brief overview. I would be happy if it would be supplemented or corrected by users who are really familiar with steroids.

Testo only (500mg)
Advantages:
-very low price & good availability
-optimal mass and muscle building through the synergistic effect of Testo, Östro and IGF-1, among other things:
- Relatively low impact on lipid and cholesterol levels
- gentle on the joints
--bone mineralizing
Disadvantage:
- increased estrogen level promotes / favors:
--gynecomastia
- fat build-up
- water retention (=> gentle on the joints)
- a lot of estrogen is carcinogenic (?)

Testo (750mg) + aromatase inhibitor (=> estrogen at "normal" level, i.e. around 50pg / ml)
Advantages:
- less estrogen:
- less water retention / fat build-up
- lower risk of gyno & estrogen-related tumors (s)
-quality growth
Disadvantage:
-high price because of A-inhibitors (and test quantity)
-possibly worsening of the lipid and cholesterol values ​​(due to the A-inhibitor => 1st choice exemestane)
-Less IGF-1 => less "mass" (= disadvantage?)
-higher risk of acne, hair loss and prostate problems (??)

what about strength and libido?

the primary question is whether the higher testosterone level can compensate for the low estrogen / IGF-1 level in relation to lean muscle building (strength and libido).
some people are more about quality than sheer mass (and the whole diet after an extreme mass treatment is not the last word in wisdom)

I am happy about your cooperation

please mods, do not destroy the thread immediately, the question should be answered extensively and in detail in this thread


SoulCrusher
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of SoulCrusher »21 Jun 2006 12:22

I wouldn't overestimate Estro.
Think that 50% more Testo (i.e. 750/500 = 1.5 = 150%) can easily compensate for the "missing" / pressed Östor / IGF-1.
I don't advise anyone to be more envious of their estrogen levels than to reduce them to physiological levels, but your 50pg / ml should be enough imho.
There are no libido problems either.

I would also have liked to have clarified in detail how it behaves with the remaining differences in terms of sides.
Power is nothing without control


SoulCrusher
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of SoulCrusher »21 Jun 2006 12:40

That is an advantage and was / is also clear.
You could drive 2g Testo, hold Ö at 50 and .....
What about the rest.
Because if 50% more Testo have inappropriately more sides, it should be considered. But most of the sides can be traced back to Ö ...
But I think it was about the meager gains with 50% more Testo, it doesn't have to be 2 g
Power is nothing without control

balance
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of balance »21 Jun 2006 14:04

My experience is limited to Testo E Only (Norma - at Testo I prefer apo products) in 750mg / week without an A-inhibitor for 20 weeks.

@gainerboy - what I read from your posts meanwhile, we have pretty much the same goals in terms of material: Light Zone - just Quality!

At 750mg / week there was too much water for my taste. During that time I also ate a lot of carbohydrates - if only because of the question of how much you can control the water retention with the carbohydrate supply, I would do the cure again. Afterwards you always know everything better.

Noticeable NW's:
Hair Loss - Myself & my "ancestors" have pretty good hair. I didn't go bald either, while doing my hair I noticed that a few hairs came out where normally, if one fails at all, there was nothing. If it was a total of 10, that was a lot.

Acne - am acne damaged - was quite pronounced -> Siscutan (weaker than ROA). Had acne on my back and face. Not excessively strong now, but I would say in the "bloom" there were 3 purulent pimples on the back, otherwise only these pustules on the shoulder girdle. The acne wasn't so bad that you'll find an article about it in the dermatology magazine right away. About 10 pimples on the face of which 3-4 are normal purulent. None of those big things where you don't dare to leave the house anymore - in the normal range.
The summer when doing community service was also partly to blame for the acne. No climate in the car + shitty "plastic shirts" + spend 12 hours continuously on 12 year old car seats = bacteria & sweat in continuous running.

Water - yeah was pretty respectable. As I said, would like to test again how the whole thing can be regulated with KH supply. The fat that I built up was also due to the sometimes shitty diet.

If I try again then in the range of 500 to 750mg per week with restricted KH supply and a 5aRI because of the acne because I had no problems with the really "bad" AromataseNW - Gyno.

One more thing - if a MOD or responsible person reads this - think about a light zone. If people only want substances in the 0.5g range and, for example, Oxandrolone stacks, everyone who takes Testo & Tren in the 2g upwards range will tell you that this is simply a waste of money, but for a 250mg TestoEe4d substance that can possibly bring something.

Back 2 Topic: 500mg / week + water with KH try to regulate (if that doesn't work -> Testo down: Why drive with the handbrake on [based on aromatase inhibitors]). If you are prone to acne, 5aRI via blood count (Avodart). I wouldn't worry too much about gyno and have Adex or similar ready for the withdrawal phase / emergency. And very important: a good rapport with Uncle Doc (blood count & psychological monitoring) + a proper basis.


SoulCrusher
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of SoulCrusher »21 Jun 2006 16:00

Think we're on the same wavelength!
Only with me is it rather the other way around with the sides.
Have fewer problems with DHT-related NWs. At 500mg / where on the shoulder belt a few small pores filled with a little talk, nothing serious. clean face!

My problem is really more of the estrogen / estradiol.
I had small nodules under the nipple due to puberty and was unfortunately also overweight.
Therefore, I tend to be more gyno, water retention and fat build-up ... just ass card ...

Cutting down the carbs doesn't do much either, except that I'm tired and pissed off / annoyed all day long.

As you can see in my footer below, I currently use 500mg TestoE + ~ 20mg Exemestane per week. It seems to me as if the handbrake is on. It's been on for 12 weeks, something should be going by then ...
Therefore, the question arises whether I can compensate for this with a 50% increased test result.

Now everyone will come back with "yes, yes, always more material, rather optimize training and nutrition".
Long done! I'm not saying that nothing goes on, just relatively little.
Power is nothing without control

bichtit
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of bichtit »21 Jun 2006 17:06

So until now we can state that Testo + A inhibitors are suitable for BB'ers who have problems with estrogen-related side effects but can cope with the effects of DHT. Well, so far it was clear.
But what do the exact differences in the structure look like in one and the same person, once 500mg Testo only, once 750mg + A-inhibitor


DJBluh
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of DJBluh »21 Jun 2006 18:38

bichtit wrote:So so far we can state that Testo + A inhibitors are suitable for BB'ers who have problems with estrogen-related side effects but can cope with the effects of DHT. Well, so far it was clear.
But what do the exact differences in the structure look like in one and the same person, once 500mg Testo only, once 750mg + A-inhibitor


That is difficult to say.

The fact is that estrogen itself also has a slightly anabolic component. In order to build up mass, I would do without the chemical a-inhibitor. Mass should then also be accepted as mass.
However, if someone has problems with the estrogen-related side effects, then the use of an a-inhibitor is mandatory.

balance
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of balance »21 Jun 2006 8:25 pm

Besides, the extra water isn't bad for the joints. I think you just have to try THAT. At 250mg / WK, you usually won't notice much of the reductase or aromatase NWs. What you are susceptible to - reduced to gyno or acne, you then have to find out for yourself as you approach higher doses. Your life story so far can help you a little. Example: A colleague of mine never had problems with acne during puberty, neither did he with 750mg / WK. I already had acne problems in puberty and then had them in the cure. If you were fat in the past or already had or even still have puberty gyno, you will probably be more susceptible to this NW.

I think soon ...

@gainerboy: if you have / had problems with gyno it is somehow understandable to take an A-inhibitor. If only the water retention is bothering you - I think soon - you should first take a look at what you can regulate through diet, i.e. carbs & sodium.

addendum @gainerboy - try the other way around: not test up but A-inhibitor down to find your "tolerance threshold". If something is going on visibly or noticeably - gyno-wise - the A-inhibitors are always ready.


SoulCrusher
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of SoulCrusher »21 Jun 2006 21:16

That's right.
the equation
X mg TestoE = Y mg TestoE + Z mg exemestane
just has too many variables ...
Power is nothing without control

Mazeraty
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Affliction
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Re: 500mg Testo only vs 750mg Testo + aromatase inhibitor

of Affliction »08 May 2011 19:58

Mazeraty wrote:Yes, I am a corpse molester
Are there any more threads on this topic, possibly experience reports?

Sufu doesn't spit anything.

I'll do the same to you - it's a very interesting topic.
banned by teeth - try again here. let's see how it is.


hailo
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Re: 500mg Testo only vs 750mg Testo + aromatase inhibitor

of hailo »08 May 2011 21:26

I think the anabolic component of estrogen is completely overrated. I am currently on 300mg Testo e3d and Femara 1.25mg e2d because I got gyno problems in the first cure.
But even if that hadn't been the case, I would always use an A-inhibitor today, because I prefer 5kg of quality mass to 10kg, well ..... correct mass
Inquiries for medication or sources of supply are ignored and reported!


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